The Final Act of Love: Why Our Pets Deserve a Dignified Goodbye

Speaker A: When I started out season two, I wanted to continue to do something difficult that I did in season one, to look at grief without the filters or the empty platitudes. Over the last few months, we’ve tackled the exhausting trap of comparing our grief, learning that our pain doesn’t need to be worse or even the same than someone else’s to be valid. So many of us walk around feeling like grief imposters, hiding our heartbreak because we’re afraid someone has it worse, or because we feel that we haven’t earned the right to be this broken. This was the biggest theme that I feel like came out of season two, and I am so incredibly grateful for it. So as I was planning the season two finale, I wanted to continue to lean into challenging these narratives of comparative suffering. And there’s a form of grief that is too often sidelined, dismissed, or met with the phrase it was just an animal. Today we are finishing the season by giving that grief the space it deserves. Today I am joined by an end of life pet doula to discuss why the bond with our animals is so profound and why you don’t need a better reason to be grieving. If you’ve ever felt like you had to hide your tears over a pet, or if you’ve struggled to explain that loss to your children, this episode is for you. We’re ending this season by proving once and for all that there is no hierarchy to loss. So let’s get into the finale of season two. This is Nothing Happens for a Reason.

Kristen Griffin: Hi Kristen.

Speaker C: Hey Claire. How are you doing?

Kristen Griffin: I am good.

Speaker C: How are you? I’m doing pretty good, thank you.

Kristen Griffin: Well, do you want to introduce yourself for everybody listening?

Speaker C: Absolutely. My name is Kristen Griffin. I am a stay at home ish mom. I live on the Gulf coast of Mississippi with my husband Steve, who I’ve been married to for five years now and we have two beautiful children. I am in the veterinarian field. It’s just a little different now. I’ve made a few shifts So I have 15 years experience. 14 of those were in a clinical setting where I wore several hats from lead technician, veterinarian technician, inventory manager, and office assistant manager. The last year I have been an end of life stage pet doula. So kind of shifted the gears as far as advocating for animals. I am a degree holder in veterinarian technician. I also have my certificate for for end of life stage pet doula too.

Kristen Griffin: Well, for our listeners who have never heard of an end of life pet doula before, will you explain what that means yes.

Speaker C: So it’s such a broad subject, but I’ve seemed to pinpoint it by explaining it as if, you know, you are just recently leaving the vet’s office and you got some bad news about your dog and you’re getting in the car and you’re driving home and you’re like, you know, what do I do now? Like, I have all this information that has been given to me and I’m not really sure what I should be doing for myself to process it or what I should be doing for my pet. Well, that’s where I come in. We’re not always able to call our vet every single time we have a question or go and make those every other day follow up appointments that we really want to make just to have have, you know, a better feeling about what we’re doing and what’s going on with our animal. You know, economically we can’t always do that. And vet offices are very busy. You know, some of them have weeks out of appointments. So it’s just an extra cushion or that bridge between your household and the vet office. So it’s a support system. A lot of doulas have a show up method where, you know, you want to use it not as your pet, but it’s a hands off. You just want to show up, you want to be present for that. So what I would do is I would arrange all of those, you know, are you going to cremate? Do you want to do a burial? You know, all the paperwork that goes behind it and then just talking with the vet or the technicians or the receptionist on your behalf, because it’s not something that you really want to do. So it’s just, it’s a lot, a lot of hospice is involved. It’s pretty broad. But it’s that, you know, it’s that now what do I do? Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: And is this something that local vets work with you and give referrals out for clients who might need your services or how do people find you?

Speaker C: So, yes, I am in a smaller community on the Gulf coast of Mississippi and I, because I have been in the veterinarian world for so long, you know, a lot of them are able to give me those referrals. Girls or actually, you know, just word of mouth too. Like with Facebook. You know, people make posts all the time on Facebook about their dog being sick or, you know, whatever the case may be. And then I’ll have people tag me and then I have some vets because it’s such a newer branch of the veterinarian. Field that, you know, some of the vets, they just. They don’t know. They’re like, you know, everyone. You hear the word doula and they. They associate birth, like a birth doula, because that’s one of the most popular ones. So I’ve found that I’ve had to explain a lot to some of the veterinarians, especially the older school veterinarians, but it’s actually helping them because not only do I have that experience from being in the medical side, but, you know, also I’ve gone through this school and I’ve been trained for this, so it’s able, you know, I’m able to kind of wean through some of the communications that may take up a little bit more the vet’s time, because it’s tough, man. They’re doing surgeries, appointments, like, all kinds of stuff. So it’s. It’s definitely been an experience. Yeah. You know, jumping on board with the whole doula thing and explaining what it is and just getting the word out.

Kristen Griffin: And so people can utilize you to help. Like the logistical pieces, it sounds like that’s. I mean, what a helpful thing to offer people, because whether it’s a pet or a person in our life.

Speaker C: Right.

Kristen Griffin: Like, those appointments and phone calls and arrangements sometimes take so much away from, like, the grieving process, and we’re stressed and heartbroken and sad and all those things. And so it’s wonderful that that’s one aspect of what you’re doing. Do you also, like, sit with the people sometimes at the very end when they’re, like, putting their animals down? Is that a service that you also offer?

Speaker C: Yes, I do. So clients are not always the ones that are like, one paw out the door situation. It’s. It’s working up to it. They’re on that hospice. They’re on several medications. And then they can. They have questions about medicine or like, how they’re acting like, my dog is acting like this today. Do you think that I should bring them in? Or is this normal? Is this a normal part of death? Are they in pain or. You know, I’m also evaluating their pet as well. Just based off of the things that they’re saying or based off of the things that I see. Um, I do offer to have that extra support and be there. I have done that before. But surprisingly, with communication in this. This whole doula thing, from beginning to end with people, a lot of it is text messaging. Hmm. And I know this from my clinical days. It’s easier to text it than to hear yourself say it out Loud or don’t want you to come to my house because I know then this is really happening.

Kristen Griffin: Right.

Speaker C: And it’s easier for me to not choke up while I’m trying to explain something to you. It’s easier for me to text. That was very surprising for me. I knew in the back of my mind it was going to be like that, but I didn’t understand it until it started happening. How common it is for people to just want to text about this whole situation. And you know, I think it’s a part of their grief. Like it’s just part of their journey. It’s unsaid in a way. They’re not, they’re not saying it out loud. So it’s a little bit easier. I guess it’s like one step removed or something. Yeah. Yeah. So that has, that has been one of the biggest things. But yes, I do sit with people and sometimes they just, they, they want to be alone or they just want to have that family time and then I will meet up with them after or it’s time to give over ashes or whatever the case is. And then that’s whenever I’ll see them too.

Kristen Griffin: What a really interesting service that you’re able to offer people within this.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: And I guess I’m curious, like, in like the text messages that you get.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: What is one of the most common things that people ask you in this field?

Speaker C: How do I know? And is it too early? Mm.

Kristen Griffin: Oh my gosh.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: I can imagine.

Speaker C: Yeah. That that seems to be the biggest two, like pre death questions that I get. That is such a hard second guessing question that people try to understand and sometimes they just, they can’t on their own. They can’t on their own. And it’s just, it’s, it’s hard to process. Especially depending on the bond that they have with that animal too. Because all the, you know, you can have like me, 23 animals on this farm and then have a different bond with every single one of them. So it’s just those are probably the most difficult question to, to, to try to answer.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah. How do you answer it, man?

Speaker C: Well, I like to keep three things in mind whenever I’m trying to answer it. Obviously empathy. And I’m trying to be confident in what I’m saying. And believe it or not, this is gonna sound a little strange. Strange, but firmness in what I’m saying. And I say that because people always tend to put their own feelings before their animal’s feelings. Like I am not ready to let go or I am the one that is, you know, suffering this loss. But really your animal is looking at you and giving you these signs that they are ready to go, and they’re actually the ones that are suffering or that could be suffering. When I say firm, it’s, you know, sometimes I have to really, you know, look, we are at a stage right now that you have to make a decision. You absolutely have to make a decision. Do you want to peacefully put your animal down? Sometimes, you know, I have to say your animal is going to suffer. Depending on what type of disease they may have, what sickness is, they may have some, you know, cancers. If it’s especially upper respiratory, like heart failure or lung issues or stuff, that’s where the metacloside comes in. In hindsight, so, so, so fortunate to be able to have that behind me, because I can talk to them about the disease that’s happening with their animal. So sometimes I have to tell people, your animal is suffering and they’re going to continue to suffer. And do you want to see them go out like this or not? But I have to be very firm in what I say, but also make sure that I have that empathy that I’m able to relate, which I am able to. And then I just. The conversation just evolves after that. Listen to them and kind of where their minds at and getting towards the end of life there. I try to have people really hone in on dignity, making sure that their animal has dignity. I don’t want to jump ahead of myself, but this kind of reminded me of the podcast that I was listening to yesterday with Justin Wanted and how he was talking about Sage. Yeah. And for so many years, animals give you their unconditional love. They give you movement and exercise, they give you protection, they give you laughter, they give you the company when no one else will or would. So. So in the end, dignity is so important to me and something that I preach so much, because if you, you know, your animal did all of this for you, you need to be able to show that little bit of dignity at the end for them. Animals can be very messy, especially if there’s issues to where they can’t get up and walk or they’re urinating on themselves, they’re defecating on themselves. Some of them are throwing up everywhere. Thinking back to Magnum, if I let him go out like that, he’d be p. Pissed. Like, that’s just, you know, he would have been so mad. And I couldn’t do that. I couldn’t let him go out like that. I was like, you’re such a handsome boy and I want you to go out like that, so. And then mentally too, for animals, right, because they’re there and that’s a whole different ball game. It’s just one of those things where how do I explain that to people? And then, you know, I say those three things and then I also follow up with just like, dignity. And look at the years that your animal gave you and what they gave you. So let’s try to put them first before we put ourselves first. Wow.

Kristen Griffin: I’m like feeling myself get emotional just listening to. Because what you’re talking about, I mean, relates to humans too, right? And as I told you before, you know, I’m in the middle of an end of life death doula course and getting certified in that. And they touch on animal doulas. It’s mostly, you know, humans, but that really does seem to happen again and again. And my own lived experience with my mom as well, but just that common thought of, like, the thought of, how do we take ourselves out of this for their sake? And it’s so fucking hard. It’s so.

Speaker C: It’s hard.

Kristen Griffin: And then, you know, I. I talk about my soul dog all the time on these episodes. She’s 12 and I on a almost daily basis. I mean, she’s healthy, she’s doing great. And I’m like, oh, my gosh, you’re gonna die someday. And I get very overwhelmed about it. And I could see exactly what you’re talking about of having the value of having someone like you to be able to talk through that. Because I know I’m not gonna wanna let go when it comes time. Like, I know that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: And so, yeah, I’m like feeling myself tear up and get very emotional and just like, feeling that in my body of how hard it is, especially again when it’s our unconditional loving pets.

Speaker C: So hard. It is. It’s hard. And it’s. You know, some people have acts like, does this get easier? And I’m like, no, it doesn’t.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah, even.

Speaker C: And I’m laughing because after Magnum passed away, I am not one of those people that you can come to and ask, do you think I should get another dog? Because I’m going to tell you. Yeah, like. Like, don’t you have a whole farm? Like, if you come to me, if you’re like, wanting to get another dog, but other people are telling you no, because I’m going to tell you. Yeah, but so we got another dog. And Magnum was a lamb. Then we got this Bernie Doodles and anything that has doodle in them, if you know, or if you’ve ever had. They are goofy ass dogs. Like, they are so goofy. So I wouldn’t like catch myself. And I still do catch myself. Like, Magnum would never do that. Like, I love him. I love him so much. But the bond is different. So when it comes time for him, then like, absolutely, like, that’s not going to be easy. So like you have your soul pet and you have other pets, but it’s still hard, you know, Wouldn’t matter if it was a goldfish. Like if you have a bond with the goldfish, then that’s what it is. And it’s hard. They become a part of your routine, you know?

Kristen Griffin: Oh my gosh. Just so built in.

Speaker C: Just there. Right? Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: I feel like that’s what I hear a lot too after like family pets dying. It’s like how quiet it can feel even if there’s other animals or dogs or whatever.

Speaker C: That’s right, it is. It’s a different void. It’s. It’s a different void that, you know, never really goes away. And with people dying versus animals dying, because I’ve seen it. People have told me from their own lips. I have not mourned as bad with humans dying as I have with my pets. And again, it’s because of what they give us that people don’t, or they keep our secrets that we don’t really want people to know, or they’re around us when other people don’t want to be around us. Or if we’re going through a tough patch in life. They’re always there, you know, they’re the constant when others aren’t. So that bond is just so different and people just mourn different. It’s not that those humans were not important to them totally. It’s. It’s just their dog was more important in different ways, or their cat or, you know, whatever the case is. It was just important in different ways.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah. And I know you’ve mentioned Magnum a few times already. Do you want to talk about Magnum and let us know who that is to you?

Speaker C: Yeah. So Magnum, he was my soul dog. I got him my first year. I think in the vet clinic. I was very new. Someone dropped a box of two week old puppies off at the door in the middle of the night. So when we got there the next morning, those puppies were there.

Kristen Griffin: I didn’t know people actually did things like that.

Speaker C: No.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah, like in movies.

Speaker C: And they still do. Like that still happens.

Kristen Griffin: Oh my gosh.

Speaker C: So I know it’s pretty shitty. But eight to nine puppies were in the box, but each technician took two because we had to bottle raise them, like hand raise them. Their eyes were still closed, their ears were still closed. We were having to wipe their little butts to stimulate them, to make them go to the bathroom, just like how mom always licks them. So I took this on, being very new out of school, being very new at this clinic, and I was in for a ride that was so tough. I was not a mother at that point, but I felt like a mother because I was like getting up every two hours with him, giving him a bottle, making sure he’s going to the bathroom. So I hand raised him. And for anyone that has ever hand raised animals, they’re a lot different than regular animals. They didn’t have their mother to teach them manners. They just didn’t really get those close days encounters or I don’t want to say instinctual because later on in life instincts do kick in, but they just don’t really know how to be a dog at first. So. So he was my hand raised baby. We were very close. I was working at a vet hospital, so he was able to go to work with me every day. So we just. This bond that we had was just. We were very inseparable. But he wasn’t like one of those crazy dogs that have like separation anxiety that like tears up the holes in the wall or tears up the furniture. And it wasn’t like that though. We just lived our lives together. We met, you know, Steven, my husband, who became his dad. And then we had two kids. We started a farm together. You know, at work we would always joke about him being the kennel manager. But then when we got the farm, he became the farm manager. So. So yeah, it was super cute. He had a crazy life and he was just there for the whole ride. But he started to get sick and I knew it, I knew he was getting sick, but I was like, it’s just old dog disease. Like, you know, I kept trying to talk myself out of it, but I started to realize that he had like kind of an abdomen area started to bulge. And I was like, you know, I know better. Like, especially with my education and just my experience, like, I know better, like this is not bulldog disease. So finally was like, I’m going to bring them in. And I brought them to the clinic that I was. I had just actually left the clinic. So it was like a month later. But the clinic that had been working, that’s who I still have a great relationship With. We did an ultrasound, and we found all. I mean, his abdomen was ate up. So I was like, okay, I need to go to the oncologist. I took the extra step just to confirm everything. And he had an adrenal mass that was so large that was just, like, intertwining with his main arteries and just, like, was pushing his stomach up. And, you know, all this stuff. I’m like, God, this is why he was doing X, Y and Z. I knew. I knew. I had just a feeling. I knew it, but I didn’t want to accept it. So got cancer. We left the office that day, the oncologist that day, with a month to live. But we had four. We were able to get four from them, which was very, very, like, looking at it now. It wasn’t one of those things where I was just, like, dragging him out? No, he was still very active as far as, like, we would go for a little walk instead of a long walk. We would only throw the ball maybe two or three times instead of, like, 45 minutes to an hour, like, he would usually do it. He got a pup cup like, almost every day instead of, like, once a week, you know, so we. We were able to do a lot with him. And he really only had. Looking at those bad days. It was the last two days of his life that were bad days for him. But I’d already scheduled the euthanasia. I knew it was coming, but I wanted to see if he was going to have that turnaround because, you know, just like with people, like, they’re really sick, and then they have a great day, they don’t get sick again, and they have a good day. And that’s another thing that’s. That’s tough for people to make the decision because they’ll call, they’ll make that appointment, or they’ll think they’re gonna do it tomorrow. And then their pet wakes up and they’re like, hey, yeah, what are we doing today? So. But ultimately, we had to put him down. We were able to do it at the beach. We live right here. Right here on the beach. So it was very peaceful. It was very peaceful.

Kristen Griffin: And so somebody came out with you to the beach to be able to do that together?

Speaker C: Yes, my ex boss and my dear, dear friend who has worked side by side with me from the beginning, but she has been with him for, like, 25 years, I think. So they both. They both came.

Kristen Griffin: Wow.

Speaker C: Was the whole family there? The kids and everybody? No. So we said goodbye. And that’s actually part of the thing that I. That I say in my book, which, you know, we’ll get to. But, like, we said bye to the farm that day. We had a very good morning. Got to say goodbye to the kids. And then it was just my husband and my friend Rebecca and then Dr. West. Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: And so what did the kids think was happening?

Speaker C: So Bexley was around two, two and a half, which he was very in tune. So, you know, this goes on in this field. We have a farm. So him being around two, he started to know, you know, what death is. I. I do talk to my children about that in a way that they understand. It’s very important for me. It works for my parenting style because it’s inevitable, you know, with all the animals that we have. And then Belanor was only about maybe, like, 10 months or so in a month. She was pretty young, but still old enough to, like, interact with Magnum and stuff. So that morning, just saying bye and telling Bexley, mainly, you know, this is. Magnum’s going on a new adventure. So this is it. Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: What’s coming up now.

Speaker C: To Summer. It’s funny because I have not done this in any of these, but.

Kristen Griffin: That’s tough.

Speaker C: It’s tough when. You try to take a dog, in this case, dog, Magnum, that has been with you before. All these people were here, and that is. That’s hard because now my husband is grieving. Bexley is asking all these questions. He will continue to ask these questions. Then, you know, my daughter’s here, and she’s still young, but she knows enough to be like Magnum. And then people don’t think about. Or they forget about their other animals. And they grieve, too, like. And they grieve in very weird ways. Like, they get sick, medically sick. So I have a cat who. Magnum and the cat grew up together. Dino is in vain, so he got sick, actually. But, you know, you just start thinking about little things like that. Like, this dog has been here for so long, and then you’re having to say goodbye. But you’re also, as such a. You don’t have to be a mother to be a nurturing person. Right. Or to be, you know, that term mother goose. Like, you don’t actually have to have children to be a mother goose. And I am such a Mother Goose person, even before kids. So I’m always worrying about everybody else and them having to say goodbye and them having to process it. So it hits me, you know, it hits at different times.

Kristen Griffin: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker C: Of course.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course it does.

Kristen Griffin: And you’re right. I mean, the. You being a mother Goose.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: Like my guess is that you were doing a lot of like taking care of other people in the midst of Magnum dying.

Speaker C: So it’s. Well, yeah, because I was new to motherhood. I was still postpartum. You know, I am a stay at home mom. My husband works offshore for half of the month, then I have all these animals. So yes, I was trying to take care of a lot of things, but also slowly figuring out how to stay. Except what was going on.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah, yeah. Were you already in the end of life animal field when Magna died or what was the motivation of getting into that?

Speaker C: I wasn’t yet, you know, I closed the door on the vet clinic and I did that because, you know, I’ve always been a person that thrives in chaos and that has been such a chaotic field. And it is a chaotic field. Yeah. Having a farm, being a newer mom, concentrate on being a more present wife. And just that whole stay at home ish mom thing, you know, it just became to be too much. So I had to step back. And whenever I stepped back, that’s when Magn got sick. So I knew, you know, I can’t let my schooling go to waste. I couldn’t let all the years of experience go to waste. I knew that I wanted to be an advocate for animals, but I didn’t know what that looked like until he got sick and he died. And it just like, it wasn’t a building up process to me becoming an end of life stage doula. It was literally a light bulb moment. Like when I say a light bulb moment within like 24 hours. I found the program because it just hit me and I took it and I ran with it and then I signed up for school and I started whenever the semester started.

Kristen Griffin: Wow, that’s incredible. Had you known about animal doulas before? Okay, how did you. Did you just like google it and you’re like, that’s the program for me.

Speaker C: I googled it. I totally googled it. And that’s kind of funny being in the animal field and people. I’ve had like two other people ask me that and they’re all like, how did I do? I was like, dude, I googled it.

Kristen Griffin: I think it just.

Speaker C: Silly thing. It’s.

Kristen Griffin: I mean, but it speaks to the. The fact that like it’s such an unknown.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: Resource. Like the fact that you were in the field for 10 years, you had colleagues, vets, like, and nobody knew and it wasn’t something that came up. Like, I think it is part of, you know, Our death avoiding culture, that it’s not something that’s talked about even for, like, humans. Like, yeah, I just was telling somebody who is a provider, like a medical provider that I work with about a death doula just for humans. And she was like, I have no idea what you’re talking about. And so it’s. It’s not that silly that you had to use Google to find something like that because, like, it doesn’t surprise me. Yeah.

Speaker C: And once you start reading on these roles, you start to think like, these are roles and people that have been here for centuries. They have, you know, these are things that people have been doing for centuries. Yes. It just looks a little different as time goes by. But the whole doula world, like, it’s so old, but so new. Just people becoming aware, educated about it, doing this all these years, being in the vet, feel like I had no clue those doulas were out there. So I want to join. So here I am kind of thing. But yeah, man, just a Google search and I found it and I just ran with it.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah. And I think your point is, is a super important one of, like, doulas, birth and death doulas are not new. Maybe them becoming more normalized in, like, American culture.

Speaker C: That’s correct.

Kristen Griffin: And like, the idea is like, to have somebody help walk you through these really pivotal things in life. I think there’s a lot of other cultures out there that have been doing that for a really long time. And actually just in the end of life doula class that I’m in, we watched a video and they’re talking about a big shift in, again, like, American culture where like, we really started sterilizing death. And I think that’s part of it. Right. Like, it wasn’t something not just to talk about, but I mean, they talked about, like, the history of doctors not even telling their patients that they were dying because they didn’t think they could, like, handle it or the doctor didn’t know how to handle the emotions of the person. They just, like, avoid it and not tell them, like, what their diagnosis was. And death and birth going into hospitals versus, like in the home settings.

Speaker C: Right.

Kristen Griffin: Like, there’s been a lot of, I think, transitions that we’ve seen in the last century. And I think it’s such a great thing that hopefully things like being doulas, being being a pet doula, having conversations like this, we can come back to hopefully normalizing these things that are part of life.

Speaker C: Right. Because at the end of the day, people want support. Right. Whatever that may look like for them, they want support. It could just mean somebody sitting in the same room as them, not even talking. It’s. It’s such a assurance thing for them. It’s just a. It reassures them. It’s a comfortable thing for them. And I, I agree with you. I feel like it’s something that needs to be normal sized a little bit more than what it is. And it’s up to people like you and I, who are, you know, in this field to, to educate others on it, because I can hear, just hear like seven out of ten people. They’re like, you know, what is a doula? Or what is. I thought that people, you know, that was people that birthed babies. That’s like one of the biggest things that I get. And I’m like, well, yeah, but no, let’s talk about it. There’s other branches. So, yeah, I really, I hope. And I, and I do see, I do see medically that I feel like there’s going to be a place for all of us and it’s going to be in the forefront where people are going to know that we are an option. We are an option if you need us.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah, I love that vision.

Speaker C: I hope you’re right. Yeah, me too.

Kristen Griffin: And so, I mean, I think that’s a really good transition of, you know, not only you going into this role as an end of life pet doula and wanting to be an advocate for animals like you said, but do you want to talk about the other area of how you’re trying to help normalize these conversations? Talk about what you’ve created?

Speaker C: Yeah. So I wrote a children’s book, and I did that because being a doula just wasn’t enough for me to memorialize Magnum. I wanted to be able to reach more people and help them outside of my community. You know, at the beginning of our conversation, we were talking about, you know, some of the more common, tough questions that were asked. But I would have to follow that up with parents asking, well, what do I tell my children? That’s a very, very common question. This is another world with having your children with grief. So it’s, it is different because there’s sponges at this age, children than preteens and teens. So it’s just that I began to think this is a tough subject. It’s already a tough subject. It’s not a subject that’s spoken about within our own home. And then whenever you throw children in the mix, it’s just almost something that we don’t, we don’t normalize we don’t talk about. So I’m going to write a children’s book. And I wrote it on my phone, like on the notes section on my phone. I would come back, I would write it. Some days I couldn’t look at it because I was having a bad day or I didn’t want to cry that day, you know, whatever the case is. So I would come back to it, did, you know, wrote a few sentences, came back, walk away. This took a year. This was a year to write this. When I said to some of my close friends, like, it took me a year to write this. And they were like, for a children’s book, I’m like, yeah, man.

Kristen Griffin: You’re like, it is so much more.

Speaker C: Yeah, like, I was warning my dog. So. So I wrote this book and I thought while writing this book, this needs to be some sort of interactive book where parents can just plug in their pet’s name and they don’t have to try to come up with the words themselves. So I use my sister always as an example. She’s going to start charging me like a dollar every time I say her name for these. And my sister Taylor, just personality differences. She is the type of person that, she’s very sympathetic, she’s, she is very emotional on her own, you know, level. But she would say, like, to my nephew, like, I’m sorry the dogs died, and give them a hug. And that would be it for a little while. It’s not a like me. I’m like, you’re gonna sit down, we’re gonna talk about this. Like, how are you feeling? Do you want some water? Like, you know, have a long session with my kids. But. So I wanted it to be used as a tool to try to get some of that anxiety off of parents who are already trying to deal with this on their own, in private, not in front of their kids. So the book is about Magnum’s life. It is a very easy transition to saying goodbye. It’s not like that doom and gloom, euthanasia, you know, story. It is written in a sense to where my, my goal, my target goal is like that 2 year old to about 9, 10, depends on how mature the child is. But the transition is, you know, we’re going on a new adventure. Children those ages, they know what adventure means. They know what like, journeys means. Like, I tried to use words that were familiar to them. I used things like our farm animals, the red barn, like, things that would stick out to them. But the most important part to me of my book was when I Went to my illustrator, who is a phenomenal artist. She. This is her first time doing a children’s book, but she does a lot of, like, abstract floral stuff. So I told her that I had this idea. I wanted her to do it in, like, a whimsical watercolor and did not want her to put the faces. The characters are me, my husband, and then my two children. Obviously, because it’s about Magnum. Don’t put our faces on there. Leave them blank. Sounds crazy. But the reason behind that is because when you’re reading to children, their imagination is just, like, pinging everywhere. And I wanted them to see themselves. I wanted them to see their family when they’re being read this book. And that actually worked in my favorite. For when I was reading my book to a friend, and one of the children that was there was like, look, that’s dad. Well, that’s my husband. I know that’s not their dad.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: But it favors their dad, and that’s what they saw. So that was just, like, a moment for me that I was like, damn, this did work. Like, this worked. You know, this idea worked. And then just the transition of saying goodbye is very, very soft. And then, of course, the end. I have a page that is dedicated toward anticipatory grief. So, you know your pet’s sick, you know that they’re going to die soon, so let’s talk about it. And then the next page is, your pet has already crossed over the rainbow bridge. And then talk about it. And a little bit different dialect. But it also forces you to have family time, which can be hard sometimes with families with scheduling. Yeah, I’m very excited. So what’s.

Kristen Griffin: What’s it called? Can we see the COVID of it?

Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. So it’s called Magnum’s Final Goodbye.

Kristen Griffin: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker C: These are all our animals. But what is this so about? Two months ago, we lost one of our alpacas, and he was the last one alive on this front cover. So all the animals on this page have now officially crossed over the rainbow bridge. So I was like, man, what a time for this book to come out. And then, like, you know, all of these animals have officially crossed over the rainbow bridge that are on the COVID Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: Wow. Would you mind reading a section to.

Speaker C: Us, not a novel?

Kristen Griffin: How’d you pick which one you want.

Speaker C: To read to us? Before you jump in, a main question that I get asked is, how do I make the transition from Magnum being alive and healthy to ultimately being dead? And that seems to be no 1 of the. Go to Questions that I almost know now that I’m going to be asked that as people are asking me questions. So I decided to pick that part is one of the things that I read here. So just the beginning of the book, I did like a little dedication for every smile behind tears. There is a tail wagon for you over the rainbow bridge. And then that’s Magnum. And I don’t know if you can see it. Yeah, he’s super cute.

Kristen Griffin: What a sweet boy.

Speaker C: Yeah, he was super sweet. So the beginning is just introducing him and. And his life and all the jobs that he had that we spoke about in the beginning of the podcast. So the transition is I recently got sick and had to go see the doctor. He said I would have to say goodbye to my family soon, which made them really sad. So we know that Magnum has gotten sick now. He’s worried that he’s going to have to say goodbye. And he sees right to the animal scent that something could be a little off in the house because they just vibe off of our emotions sometimes. But one thing too, that I’ll incorporate this, that people ask is if they think that their pet knows that they’re dying. I do think so. I think so. I think they know. I think it’s just an instinctual thing. Just like, you know, on the farm side how you know, you’ll see a herd animal exclude themselves from the herd. That’s very common with, like, cow people know that. Horse people know that all animals do that. You don’t have to have a herd for them like, you are their herd. So people say, well, they’re sleeping more or, you know, they don’t really want to get out to bed. That’s that instinctual thing that’s happening. You just don’t realize it. I was a little scared because I did not know where I was going. But mom and dad said I would get to go for a walk on a beautiful rainbow bridge. I would get to see old and new friends once I got there. That sounded really nice. So now he’s thinking about where he’s going to be able to go. And then I’ll skip. We make the little transition to setting uself up whenever we went to the beach. And then the last page is, I woke up from my nap and saw the beautiful rainbow bridge that mom and dad told me about. I ran across it as fast as I could with excitement before reaching the other side. I turned, looked at my family one last time, and let out a big bark as I said my final goodbye. Don’t do it. It’s coming. Yeah. So the back is the anticipatory and the already crossed. And then one thing that I’m very, I guess, proud of on the anticipatory side is a lot of people in the doula ask, what can I do these last few months? You know, what should I be doing? Is there any ideas you have? Yes, I have all kind of ideas. You know, I throw things out, like, end of life stage photo session. I have a friend who is a local photographer that she has agreed to take on any clients that want to do that. I’m really big on crafts, doing little crafts with them, celebrating things early. If you have a birthday or if they have a birthday or if you do Christmas presents, you know, celebrating something early. One thing that I do on the anticipatory is let’s draw and color a picture of you. I’ll plug Magnum’s name in. Let’s call, let’s draw and color a picture of you and Magnum and give it to him. When your child gives them this picture, make sure to snap a few photos. Once your pet passes, gift your child with a last in framed photo of this moment. Let them put it up in their room or someplace in the house. So that’ll be something that they’ll always have. Because you get to the end and you’re like, man, I wish I would have had more pictures. Or I wish I would have had different pictures. So not only are they drawing this picture, that’s a keepsake, right? Because little kids, I try not to save, like, every single little thing that my children draw, but sometimes I do. But you’re able to also capture these moments.

Kristen Griffin: What a really nice idea.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

Kristen Griffin: Beautiful.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Kristen Griffin: I would probably cry through that whole entire book.

Speaker C: It’s. It’s. Yeah, it’s happened. I have. Yeah, I absolutely have. I. I keep telling myself, like, oh, my God. You know, with the holidays coming up, there’s a few. There’s a few events that I have booked up. Like, am I gonna get in front of these kids and start crying? You know, it happens. It happens, right? One of the. So I’m doing Santa Claus reading. He’s going to read it. So I’m like, okay, cool. Like, oh, I got off the hook on that one. But we’ll just let Santa cry.

Kristen Griffin: I do think that’s, like, interesting.

Speaker C: Do you.

Kristen Griffin: Do you feel like you give yourself permission to, like, cry in front of your kids about. About these things?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah.

Speaker C: Or sometimes. It depends on what. Sometimes it depends on what day I’m in my cycle and just like, let it go. Yeah. Or if you just, you know, you just touch on a little thing that you’ve suppressed and then finally it’s like.

Kristen Griffin: Nope, we’re gonna do this.

Speaker C: We’re gonna cry about this today. And I think that the tears also, at this point when reading the book, it’s not just about my grief for Magnum, it’s about the journey, this journey that it taken me to get here. And then like something that’s so intimate and just so important to me that I’m sharing with strangers too. So, like, my kids are in this book too, but it needs to be talked about more. And that’s my goal. It needs to be pulled from these kids to where they grieve too. And it can look a little different, just depending on the age. But also, you know, like with my kids, if you decide that you take this book and you pull it out on your pet’s birthday and you want to read the book, you may get totally different answers than what you first got. That’s them being more open with you and open with this process of losing their pet. So that was another thing too, that I was like, you know, I don’t, I don’t want this book to just be like some of the books you put in your library and you don’t get back out as children’s books. Which happens. As a parent, I’ll say it. It happens at Christmas time, Thanksgiving time, you know, birthdays, or just when you’re feeling sad, you know, just pull it out and talk to them and you’ll get different emotions every time. So I think a lot of the tears too, is just like, I did it. Mm. The book is, is. Well, it’ll be here next week. But I’m able to share all of this and hopefully able to help a lot of parents help their children.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah. And honestly, I’m like, maybe not just parents and kids.

Speaker C: Like, yeah. Yes.

Kristen Griffin: Again, we know grief avoidance comes in all ages too.

Speaker C: And so absolutely it is. And sometimes it’s a little easier. It’s funny that you say that because I was recently talking to a friend who was not a parent. And sometimes you want to have a light hearted read, but a good cry. Right. So something that doesn’t touch on the doom and gloom of, you know, what happened. Like, Magnum was ate up with cancer. Like, you don’t need to know that. But in my book, you know, that he was sick. And it’s nice to read something that. Almost innocent in a way, but has such a dark side to it.

Kristen Griffin: Yeah, there’s. There’s like emotional depth.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And you’re just able to read it at any stage, at any age and then read the interactive questions and plug your pet into it. And then you’re, you know, you’re like, yeah, man. Like self heal. Like, you know, start self healing. So, you know, start talking yourself through it. Because sometimes you gotta talk yourself through it. You don’t always, you know, have to be quiet about it. Right? Yeah. Often.

Speaker A: That’s.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: The hope, I think too.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: So where’s the book gonna be available to buy?

Speaker C: So I am going to have the book.

Kristen Griffin: I’m.

Speaker C: I’m gonna bite the bullet and do it. It’ll be available on Amazon. Okay, I’ll do that. And then a lot of just like local things that we have. And then if anyone wants to reach out to me for my Facebook or my Instagram, I will always mail a copy and you can just venmo me. PayPal. I have square, so I have all of that. But also I wanted to kind of keep it more intimate because I want to write personalized messages in the books too. And I know that I won’t always be able to do that, especially with Amazon, but I still plan on as just an author, as a person that is grieving with you and that understands. I do plan on writing little messages in. In each book that I sell just to let you know that you’re being thought of and that you’re not alone. Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: Oh, I think that’s so special.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: I’m really glad that you want to do that.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: Well, I’ll definitely make sure to put any of your information and websites in the show notes for this episode too, so people know how to find you. And yeah. Whether it’s messaging you on Instagram and Venmoing you or knowing.

Speaker C: Or the Amazon you can find. Or Amazon. Exactly.

Kristen Griffin: The specialized message sounds really nice though.

Speaker C: So. I know it.

Kristen Griffin: I know it sounds really, really nice. Well, I just really want to say how appreciative I am of you reaching out to me. And as I said to you in my first response of. It felt like such a good timing.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: I mean, really just started my own death doula course and you reaching out and expressing interest of coming on and telling part of your story, which is also talking about Magnum story.

Speaker C: Yeah. And absolutely.

Kristen Griffin: And I just. I think the, the main takeaway that I have of. Of all of this too is being able to have hard conversations and in a way that feels like a good fit for the family, but not avoiding it. Right at the beginning, you’re like, I. I talk about death and dying and those things with my family, with my kids. And I think that’s such a important, vital approach. And even just, you know, in. In my career as a therapist, like, when I talk with my adult clients about, like, how did you learn about death and dying? Like, so many people have really, like, sad or kind of screwed up experiences of that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: Versus, like, this is part of life. How do we talk about it? And again, like, in age appropriate ways, but we need to talk about it. And so I love that that’s part of your messaging, too.

Speaker C: Yeah, that was. That was a challenge, too. Like a personal challenge I had for me. Because growing up, we talked about it, but not in depth. You know, it was just one of those things that somebody died. Are you okay? Okay. We have their funeral, and then we have a celebration of life after, and then we’ll just keep going with life, you know, and it’s not like a fault. It’s just how things work. Yeah. Just like. So, hey, all done?

Kristen Griffin: Yeah.

Speaker C: Right. Moving on. Yeah. Right, Right.

Kristen Griffin: Versus Yeah. Six months a year, ten years, thirty years later, like, we can still get choked up and, you know, emote and feel the emotions of it. It’s. It’s not something that’s just, like, gone and buried. So I just. Yeah. I love your approach. I’m really excited to read your book. I will definitely be venmoing you so I can get a copy of your book.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.

Kristen Griffin: Loved one really wants a personal message.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.

Kristen Griffin: But, yeah, just thank you. So, Kristen, I really appreciate you coming on with me.

Speaker C: I really appreciate you having me too. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being open to it. And I know that it takes one to know one in this situation, so thank you so much. I appreciate it. I really enjoyed it. Yeah.

Kristen Griffin: Thank you.

Speaker A: When I started out season two, I wanted to continue to do something difficult that I did in season one. To look at grief without the filters or the empty platitudes. Over the last few months, we’ve tackled the exhausting trap of comparing our grief, learning that our pain doesn’t need to be worse or even the same than someone else’s to be valid. So many of us walk around feeling like grief imposters, hiding our heartbreak because we’re afraid someone has it worse or because we feel that we haven’t earned the right to be this broken. This was the biggest theme that I feel like came out of season two. And I am so incredibly grateful for it. So, as I was planning the season two finale, I wanted to continue to lean into challenging these narratives of comparative suffering. And there’s a form of grief that is too often sidelined, dismissed, or met with the phrase it was just an animal. Today, we are finishing the season by giving that grief the space it deserves. Today, I am joined by an end of life pet doula to discuss why the bond with our animals is so profound and why you don’t need a better reason to be grieving. If you’ve ever felt like you had to hide your tears over a pet, or if you’ve struggled to explain that loss to your children, this episode is for you. We’re ending this season by proving once and for all that there is no hierarchy to loss. So let’s get into the finale of season two. This is Nothing happens for a reason.