codependency and grief

Transcript Part 1

Hi. So nice to have you, Alyssa. I know. It's so nice to be here. It's really cool to do this in person, honestly. I'm so excited. what a fun merging of different worlds. Mm-hmm. I agree. I'll let you introduce yourself. OK, perfect. So my name is Alyssa Zander, and I am a codependency and relationship coach.

And I basically just share all of my cringey stories publicly. It's working for you. So it's, it's, it's healing something very deep seated for me, for sure. ⁓ learning how to stand and my authenticity has been such a gift. And I'm, I'm glad to be that beacon of light for other people that it's okay for them to do it too. But I would be lying if I didn't say that I'm like.

a messy mess on the other side of my posts, whether that's on social media or the podcast, but it's worth it. It is worth it. It's liberating for sure. And you've created such a big community. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I should speak to that. So I'm, I'm the creator of Codependency Alchemy. It's both a membership and a podcast and it's a global community. Like we have people who are members from the UK, from Africa, from...

just all over the world. And it's really, really neat to see so many like-minded people coming together and creating this community to be seen and The messy parts of healing codependency and our attachments and the dysfunctional ways that we show up in our relationships that we maybe weren't aware of. And it's been a really, really neat journey. It's fucking amazing. Thank you. amazing. And you just celebrated.

Your birthday, your podcast birthday, right? did. Yeah. Two years, two years old. And I was like, my gosh, it's only two years. It feels like it's been 10 and so much has happened in two years. You know, we went from birthing the podcast to being a top 5 % podcast within like the first six months to being now a top 2 % podcast. And even hitting the charts, like we got like top 25.

last March. And I was like, wow, this is like, this is happening. You're it. Yeah, we're doing it. And it's really cool to see how much it's grown this last year too. Wow. Well, congratulations. That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. I'm curious if you could speak a little bit to, how you ended up doing what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. So

I was unaware of what codependency even was. no idea. mean, what I thought codependency was, what is, what I think a lot of people think codependency is, which is, you know, you're in a relationship with someone who's struggling with addiction and moving through that enabling, like that's all I had for context. like, you're in a relationship with someone who's an addict and you enable that's codependency. And so I was always really able to be like, well, that's not me.

Right. You know, I'm not in a relationship with an addict and like, I'm not enabling, like just really pushing aside that narrative. So never really needing to look at it, which I think is really common. Another thing that I used to always tell myself, I'm so independent. Yeah. I'm oldest daughter. and I'm independent as fuck. So I can't be codependent if I'm independent. ⁓

Well, it's a hate to burst people's bubble out there. That's like, me too. ⁓ hyper independence is literally one of the top codependency patterns. ⁓ it's because we don't feel safe or don't trust other people to carry out tasks. Right. So we do it all for everyone else because no one can do it as good as us. Yes. we control. Yeah. my gosh. I'm sure we'll talk a lot about control, including my own.

But yeah, I mean, exactly right. Even as a therapist, and I've, I've worked in addiction work for the last 10 years. And so even I had a very narrow definition of codependency and I knew the origin was within the addiction world, but it's, it's evolved and changed so much more to something different and, or at least a wider understanding of it. And I tell,

clients every single week, because people hear codependency and yeah, people think what that means is I'm this like over dependent person who's incapable of doing anything myself and I need everyone around me to take care of me. And it's almost so opposite to that. so, yeah, I'm glad that you're talking about, you know, the misconceptions of it. And the nuances of it, right. Um, it took me breaking up with my partner, which is what led me to this work. Uh, we are back together. We've been.

you know, together more or less for 11 years as of last month with a seven month breakup in the middle. And people always ask was it like you break up, you work on each other and get back together? Like, no, we were just like, we want different things. Let's go ahead and go our separate ways. It was very respectful, very amicable, which I'm so grateful for.

⁓ but I think that clean break was actually really important for both of us that there wasn't this looming, well, maybe we'll get back together. Cause I think that would have created a lot of control pieces as well. Like, well I'll do this and then he'll get back together with me or, I'll work on this and then he'll get back together. There wasn't that. He needs to work on these things, which is really what was going on at the time. was like everything that he knows sucks in our relationship is because of him. jokes on me. ⁓

It I'm, you know, it's the Taylor Swift song. Like it's me. Hi, I'm the problem. It's me. That's what I realized basically. it's too swift. out. so yeah, I basically got into a situation ship right after that breakup. because by no means did I want to.

figure out my role in anything. I wanted to find somebody else that I could pour into and fixate on. And I did just that. And it was a trauma bond, which brought up all of my worst patterns, which I had really ignored in my relationship with my partner previously. So yeah, just seeing all the ways that I covertly manipulate people when I don't feel safe, trying to get people to spend time with me.

because I don't want to be alone. Just like all of these really insidious ways that I was showing up in that relationship were like, had a spotlight on them basically. And so at that point I started realizing that maybe it's worth looking at my role in this. And it really was this divinely orchestrated thing. I wish the story was different so it could be more relatable maybe to people, but.

The fact was that I was seeing the word codependency everywhere for whatever reason. And I didn't have social media at the time. So I wasn't seeing it on social media. was like seeing it on like books or seeing it just in my head or hearing it in my head as well. And so I got a journal and I wrote codependence at the top of the journal. And I wrote this whole poem, which I've written poetry ever since I was.

young. It's like the thing that saved me in my childhood. And this whole poem came flowing out of me. And I started seeing how codependent I was because I was so desperate for other people to fill what I was seeing as a vessel in my heart space. And I was like, I needed people to validate me, to see me, to appreciate me, to need me in order for me to feel satiated. But then realizing that

It feels good for a moment. It fills that vessel. The way I see it now is like, it's like dopamine, right? If it's coming up through the top of the vessel, it's filling all the little, dopamine receptors on the way down, but push out the bottom and then you need more and then you need more. And so I was seeing how hyper critical I was when let's say my partner did the dishes. Well, he did the dishes, but.

Why would you put the dishes in the dishwasher like that? Like a crazy person, you know, like I was immediately critiquing it, right? Because if I actually allowed myself to receive it, well, guess what? Then I wouldn't need anything to come back and fill that vessel and hit those dopamine receptors. So if I'm constantly critiquing it, then I need you to do more than I need you to do more than I need you to do more. And no one can ever live up to that, right? No, it's impossible. Right? So I watched my partner basically go from depressed because

I mean, who wouldn't be to be constantly critiqued or like have a magnifying glass over you. I saw how I was the damn blanket over his flame because as soon as we broke up, he was like out and about and just happy and light-spirited. And that's why I wrote co-dependency at the top of that journal and wrote that poem because I was seeing very clearly how...

different this person was in a relationship with me versus out of a relationship with me. Did you feel resentful at first about that? Pissed. Yeah. Pissed. I feel myself being like, what the fuck? resentment doesn't even touch on how frustrated I was. I, and I think that because I was in a situationship at the time, it kind of was like, whatever, but yeah, I'm like all the things I wanted you to do.

all the way that I wanted you to be here you are being all easy and free spirited. I want you to travel with me. You didn't even get a passport. As soon as we break up, guess who has a passport and going to Spain. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. You know, I was pissed, but why would he want to go to Spain with me? Right. That's what I started seeing. Like, why would he want to do these things with me? If every time we did something, I was, I was just.

overbearing and hypercritical and it was really uncomfortable. It was a really uncomfortable time, but you know, the story ends well. You know, we got back together and my relationship with him is like night and day. You know, we travel every single year to different countries. We communicate. We laugh more than I've ever laughed in my entire life.

We've sustained it for over five years after getting back together. And it just feels like we continue to have deeper intimacy over time. ⁓ and it's required me to take responsibility because my patterns still show up. at my core, still have these tendencies, but I also have enough safety built into my nervous system to take responsibility for that when it happens. And I think that is what makes such a big impact in my relationship. Yeah.

Wow. So that's why I do what I do. I'm holding myself accountable. Totally. Codependency alchemy is for me to hold myself accountable because I do not want to fall back into my old patterns and like make somebody else the bad guy in my story, which is what I've done in all of my relationships. Yeah. Yep. It's so funny. I'm sitting here feeling myself like internally feel uncomfortable because of the things that you're talking about that I've been

working really fucking hard on for the last year and a half, but definitely still show up. And I'm like, ⁓ like my partner is going to hear this episode and be like, you still do some of those things. Like you don't have to listen to that episode because yeah, that's the accountability piece. Like him being able to have the language too of the work that I'm doing, there is something that's still uncomfortable about that for me. And it's, it's such important work.

And it's really empowering actually at the end of the day. It's just, ⁓ yeah, uncomfortable. Yeah, it is. I asked Justin one night we were in bed and I was like, you know, what do you think is the one thing that changed our relationship? Like, what do you think is the thing that has been this pivotal moment for us? The reason why our relationship is night and day and the way he answered.

Not even the way he answered, but the fact that he had an answer right away, you didn't even need to take a breath. was like, you started just focusing on yourself and it's so true. I was fixating on him. Now I have that as my red flag for myself. Whenever I'm like, ⁓ my God, he's still on YouTube. my God. He's what? Like he was eating another cookie. my God. Like whatever it is.

That's my indicator now to be like, okay, I'm overriding something within me. What is it that I'm overriding within me? It's usually like, I have a need that I'm not clearly communicating with him. like, I want to spend time with him and I want to connect. And so when he's on YouTube, we're not getting that. And now I'm making his YouTube watching the problem instead of actually just saying, Hey, I'm really desiring connection. How can we connect tonight? You know, because for my...

my inner child that didn't get her needs met for the part of me that didn't, doesn't feel safe asking for those things. Cause they'll either be rejected or denied, know, whatever the fears are being vulnerable like that was scary. So I'd rather just make him wrong and blame him and pick him apart than just be like, I actually have a need here or a desire and I'm scared to communicate it. Yeah. Wow. So you write?

codependency on your journal and a poem comes out of it. And then where does it go? Yeah, it goes, man, on a wild journey. know, the people call it the dark night of the soul. Right. And I'm like, yeah, that shit was not a night. That shit was months, months of darkness. ⁓ if you read that journal, it's, it's pretty much my healing the mother wound book.

which is a compilation of poems of me realizing my role in so much. And the first section is called distortion. And it's all the distorted ways that I was relating, right? Control, resentment, anger, you know, they all have a place, but I was over-identifying with them in a way that was keeping me and

my loved ones in separation, right? I was so entrenched in this victim villain or victim perpetrator paradigm that kept me separate, right? Kept me as the victim, kept them as the ones who are doing wrong. And I realized that if I wanted to step into an unconditionally loving relationship, one that is based on reciprocity,

authenticity, trust, I was going to have to take accountability for where I wasn't doing those things. And was it just like, I'm here, let me dive into it? Was there a resistance popping up for you? Yeah. So like I said, I was in that situation ship. So he, he was what I would call avoidant.

And I'm anxious. there were periods of no contact, right? People who are in anxious avoidant paradigms. If you're an anxious attached person, you know exactly what I'm talking about. The periods of no contact. It was in those times, which they had gotten to about two week cycles. it was so routine. We would come back together.

everything would be great. We'd have that like deep intimate conversation. Everyone would take accountability, me and him, and everything would be blissful for like two days. And then he would ghost. And then I wouldn't hear from him for two weeks. And then that two weeks, was basically like coming from enmeshment to coming back home to myself. And it took about two weeks. By the time it was around, you know, day 12, day 13, I was finally feeling like, okay, I'm free from this.

I'm ready to just step into myself. I don't need this person. I don't need this relationship. Boom. He would text me like clockwork work. And then I was hooked again. this is the time. And then it was the pattern again. We'd come together. There'd be that, that repair. Everything would be good for a couple of days. We would do it again. And we did that for months. You know, looking back, I'm like, damn, I needed to learn that lesson.

Again and again and again. So in that no contact time, was lots of me journaling. That's where I started learning shadow work and inner child healing, except for I didn't have that language. I didn't know that that's what I was doing. so that's an interesting part of my story, like doing soul retrievals I was doing without knowing I was doing soul retrievals. I, I

didn't have enough money to go to therapy. I was a teacher. had no benefits, which is another big reason why I created the codependency alchemy membership and podcast because I'm like, I just wish I had some sort of support because I didn't know. And I didn't have the resources to learn more aside from books and Google. And at that time, you know, I was, I was deeply entrenched in my codependency patterns. So I'm watching tarot videos, which is the worst.

thing you could possibly do, uh, because you're trying to control, right? Through this divination tool

there was this one video I was watching and the, the YouTuber literally said, I don't know why this is coming through, but someone needs to hear stop watching these videos. And I was like, that's me.

I need to stop watching these videos. And that was a really big turning point for me. because I started actually resourcing from within instead of seeking out. And there was a lot of learning that happened there. That's when I started doing some deep inner work around my own unresolved trauma, which I thought I was, this is going to be a theme. know, you think you're past it. You're like, I sat with the grief. I sat with the trauma. I sat with the, you know,

the forgiveness for those who caused harm in my life. So I'm good, you know, but the thing is, that yes, you're good. And it's going to come up again because it lives within you lives in your body. exactly. and that's one of the first things I try to teach people who have joined, our community or who listen to codependency alchemy, the podcast is that healing is not

reaching some destination of healed where you don't experience discomfort, where you don't experience triggers or being activated. Healing is I know how to hold myself when I am triggered. absolutely. And so can we go back to, you brought up your book and the mother wound. Can you explain a little bit about what the mother wound is? Yeah. So the mother wound dropped in.

for me after Justin and I had gotten back together, we had been back together for maybe almost a year at that point. And I was doing these meditations. I had become more aware that I was doing shamanic journeying at the time. ⁓ which for those of you who don't know what shamanic journeying is, it's basically like a meditation where you set an intention with your spirit team and you can go to these different, places

you can meet with a guide to help illuminate something for you. And I had set my intention on this day to meet with a guy to help show me what my purpose was, my life's, my life's work. And I met with like, we're going to get real woo. Um, I met with my spirit team, which felt like the Pleiadians and it was just like my star family. And they kind of came in and they said, your life's work is to heal the mother wound.

you know, that's basically all they said to me. It was very clear. I could see it. I could feel it. And when I say see it and feel it, I could see the words heal the mother wound, being spelled out for me. And I had never heard the term mother wound at all before that journey. So I get out of the journey. I grabbed my notebook immediately and I said, my life's purpose is to heal the mother wound.

What the fuck does that mean? Question mark, question mark, question mark. And then I just stream of consciousness wrote pages and pages. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I remember those first sentences was like, the mother wound is directly related to codependency. It's the ways that we judge, condemn, compare, live in isolation.

It's where we place our worth and our good feelings about ourselves on someone or something outside of ourselves. which is how I define codependency. And so just seeing how intricately and deeply intertwined codependency is with the mother wound. Right. And from that point on, like I think I started my Instagram maybe within those few months. Yeah.

Got on social media and just started sharing about it. Yeah. if you look on my socials, I just say, my life's mission and work is to heal the mother wound. And for me, that's us unraveling from the distortion of what isolation is and thinking that we need to do things alone. Thinking that.

we are all the ways that we compare ourselves to other people, right? What they have versus what I have and their success versus my success. Like that's all the mother wound for me. That's how I relate to it. And I don't know if this is a silly question, but are there connections w