What happens when your world ends?

Transcript Part 1:

Claire Andrus (00:03)

A note before we begin today. This episode touches on some difficult subjects, including a death of a child, suicidal ideation, and other sensitive subjects. We want to remind you to prioritize your well-being. If this content feels overwhelming for you today, please feel free to skip this episode or take a break as you need it.

Hi everyone. Today I want to talk about something that has really sat with me throughout my own journey and in conversations with others navigating profound loss and trauma. You know, when I would hear people talk about finding purpose in the midst of grief, a surge of anger, sometimes even rage, would bubble up inside of me. It felt like some twisted expectation

like someone with toxic positivity telling me, you'll have gratitude for this loss at some point. What was my internal response? Fuck that. And honestly, that still holds true. So let's be clear. I will never feel gratitude for the premature death of my mom and my sister. It's also become clear to me that our society's almost obsessive need to extract meaning from hardship.

often stems from a deep discomfort, a discomfort in simply holding space for someone else's pain. Maybe it's even a way to avoid confronting our own suffering. So today, I want to be absolutely clear. I never want to forcibly encourage anyone to find some grand purpose in their painful lived experiences. And also please hear this.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with you if you haven't yet or if you never do. I'm going to say that again. You are not doing anything wrong by not making meaning and finding some sliver of purpose in the face of grief and trauma. So today we have a truly moving conversation for you.

I'll be diving in to the incredibly profound journey of grief with our guest, Carol. Carol bravely shares her experience as a mother who faced the unimaginable loss of her only child. But this isn't just a story of sorrow. Carol also shares her eventual path towards healing and the rediscovery of hope and purpose. Carol beautifully emphasizes the crucial role of connection.

the ongoing nature of reminding us that it's not something that you simply overcome, and the power of personal growth that can emerge even from the deepest pain. This is a conversation filled with vulnerability, resilience, and for Carol, ultimately, hope. I am so honored to share this story with you all. This is Nothing

happens for a reason.

Hi Carol. Thanks for being here. Thanks for being willing to come on and talk about your experience.

Grieving Mother  (03:35)

Of course.

Okay, now you are gonna make me cry.

Claire Andrus (03:45)

Okay, so, should we move the tissues closer?

Grieving Mother  (03:48)

Thank you for having me. Yeah, you know, this is that club we don't want to ever have to belong to, but we get to and so thanks for having me.

Claire Andrus (03:57)

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. So why don't we start with you sharing what your experience with grief has been.

Grieving Mother  (04:10)

Yeah, messy, terrible, awful growth, you know, the whole thing, right? ⁓ Well, I thought about what I really wanted to share. And I think I'm going to start with my son. Let me tell you a little bit about him and the journey that we went through.

Claire Andrus (04:29)

Okay. Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (04:30)

So ⁓ I ⁓ probably the best day of my whole entire life was the day I had him. His name is Anthony Robert Morel went by Tony. Tony, sweet, sweet Tony. were father was not really in the picture. He was here and there, but for the most part, I was a single mom and our connection was something that I've never.

actually had since him, very special relationship with him. It was the best job I ever had. ⁓ man, just loved him. He fit, he fit in my life. And when I had the amazing opportunity to be his mother, I was so proud. It was like the best thing I've ever done.

To back up just a little bit, just want to share like my personal childhood was not that great. A lot of trauma in my childhood. And so when I had Tony and I saw him and I looked at him, I remember saying out loud, I am going to keep you safe. I am going to create a childhood that I've never had. I am going to make sure that you feel loved every single day of your life. And

Claire Andrus (05:46)

Yeah. ⁓

Grieving Mother  (05:54)

That was my goal. However, one day we were, ⁓ on a walk with our dog and Tony kind of stumbled a little bit. He was nine and, a bit of a jokester. And so I thought he was just messing around. So I told him to knock it off. Don't do that. And he stumbled again. And I kind of.

You know, I got a little bit irritated with them and I'm like, come on, Tony, knock it off. We got to get this done. And at the time I had a corporate job and you know, I thought I got to get to work, you know, let's get going. Let's get going with life. And that's important to know about the story because there's nothing more important than spending time with your loved ones. And if I had known then what I found out later, that interaction could have been different.

Claire Andrus (06:49)

Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (06:50)

You know what I mean.

Claire Andrus (06:50)

Sure. Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (06:53)

So he stumbled again and I thought this is kind of interesting. Maybe on my way to work, I'll swing by the urgent care and take him in. He had a lot of ear issues. So I thought maybe it might've been like an ear infection messing around with his equilibrium. So I took him in and they took him back and did a MRI. ⁓

Claire Andrus (07:11)

Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (07:23)

You know, I noticed my family, they started showing up. And I thought that was rather odd because they don't usually show up for me like that, right? And I had a feeling, but I didn't think it was what it was gonna be.

Claire Andrus (07:42)

Like you're catastrophizing something in your brain.

Grieving Mother  (07:45)

Yeah, it's like what what's going on and nobody's saying anything to me. The doctor comes out and he takes us all into the room and he proceeds to say, I'm sorry to tell you that your son has stage four brain cancer. It's terminal. And if you do nothing at all, he has two weeks to live. And if you do treatment, you might have four months.

And Clara, remember at that moment, I can remember like I was like I'm there right now, right? I remember screaming like a scream. I've never screamed before, right? And I fell to the ground. And I just realized at that very moment, my life is changed forever. And I thought in that very moment,

I wasn't going to be able to make it. My heart was so broken. I was so stunned. Imagine like walking your child one minute and then being in the ER the next moment and being told that your son has two weeks to live.

Claire Andrus (09:07)

I imagine it.

Grieving Mother  (09:09)

I couldn't even wrap my head around it. I couldn't even wrap my head around it. I remember thinking, you know, at the time I was in, I'm in recovery. And at the time I had 12 years sobriety. And I remember thinking, you know, I do everything right. I'm a good person. I give back to the community. I am loving mother. I told him at birth that I was going to protect him.

And this is out of my control. And that was so hard. It was out of my control. And I felt like at that moment that

I was so devastated. I didn't know how I was going to walk forward.

Claire Andrus (10:06)

Yeah, it reminds me of, have you heard of the theory of shattered assumptions? Yeah, it's used often to talk about trauma, but oftentimes, grief is absolutely so fucking traumatizing. ⁓ And it's just this idea of maybe up until certain points in life, we have some sort of

Grieving Mother  (10:14)

share it with me.

commentaries.

Claire Andrus (10:35)

messaging, whether from our family of origin or from the world, that we think things are going to look one way. And then in a blink of an eye, that it shatters, right? And so like you just said that I was a good person, right? For some people that might be, you know, good things happen to good people. Right. And in that moment, it just is taken from underneath you to have a whole new view of the world of

Well, fuck, guess that that's actually not true. I've lived my life thinking that good things will come back to me if I put the work in and it's so not fair.

Grieving Mother  (11:17)

⁓ Not fair is like it doesn't even capture it right now. It doesn't even capture it and Not fair, but also why be? The why me that that And also the bargaining that happens, right? It's like take me instead of him. Yeah, you know, he has his whole life ahead I'm older, you know, I've done things like let him live and take me and that

Claire Andrus (11:27)

Why me? Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (11:46)

I spoke those words quite a bit. ⁓ So yes, absolutely. My whole, what I thought life was going to be changed right there in that moment. And all the good that I had done and I thought would come back to me was now in doubt. Right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So they took them in right then and we chose to fight for his life because I thought

Claire Andrus (11:48)

Yeah, can imagine.

Yes.

Grieving Mother  (12:16)

I'm a good person. I'm spiritual. know, it's everything's going to work out okay, and a miracle is going to happen. Like I really believed in that moment. That's that denial piece, right? Like the world, like everybody told me there's it's terminal. He is there's nothing that you can do. And I said, I'm going to pray for a miracle.

Claire Andrus (12:35)

Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, you're grasping for something. Grasping. Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (12:42)

Yeah. And it was the only thing that I could hold onto that got me through those terrible nights of him going through chemo and radiation and being so sick. Brainstem glioma is the type of cancer he had and it sits in the brainstem and therefore it takes them from being a beautiful whole person to now losing all of his function and to be a mother and sit next to your child.

Claire Andrus (13:08)

Wow.

Grieving Mother  (13:12)

while this is happening ⁓ was the worst kind of trauma I've ever experienced. So we did the treatments and we decided that we would even go a step further and we did an experimental treatment. So we took them to Texas to do this experimental treatment and they kind of ripped us off, which didn't feel good either.

Claire Andrus (13:36)

man

Grieving Mother  (13:36)

So many losses and traumas along the way when you have a child that has terminal cancer and you're trying to fight it.

Claire Andrus (13:44)

Yeah. Do you remember what it was like to I don't know if it was you that told Tony his diagnosis or came from the doctor? Like, what was that experience like?

Grieving Mother  (13:56)

Yeah,

such a good question. I've never been asked that. yeah. So the doctor came in and explained it to us as a family. And then we went in and told Tony that he was very sick and that he had to have treatment, but we were going to fight for his life. I remember one day we were driving to treatment and he said to his dad and I, he said, lessons you learn in school are super important.

But the lessons you learn in life are the most important lessons you'll ever learn. My little nine-year-old son who is dying from cancer had that to say. That's what kind of kid he was.

Claire Andrus (14:38)

Wow, I have chills. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (14:42)

It was hard. It was really hard.

Claire Andrus (14:43)

Yeah.

At what point was it clear or the conversation with him around, maybe not fighting anymore?

Grieving Mother  (14:56)

Yeah. So, you know, he, he would ask from time to time, I dying? And our response would be, cause that's a hard question. Like does a little nine year old even know what dying is? Right. And we would say, you know, we are fighting for you. and we are fighting for you. So it wasn't Intel. So he was diagnosed in sep.

Claire Andrus (15:04)

My gosh. Yeah.

⁓ Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (15:25)

And it wasn't until Christmas time that we finally said, we're not going to fight anymore. And Tony at that point was asking on a regular basis to go home. And we were home.

Claire Andrus (15:43)

Wow.

Grieving Mother  (15:44)

And yeah, what was that about? Where did he think was home? And so there was a point where we said, you know, we've tried everything. ⁓ We had that last Christmas, did the Christmas tree, had the gifts, but he really, at that point, he couldn't speak. He couldn't walk. So we would have to carry him to the bathroom.

Claire Andrus (15:59)

devastating. ⁓

Grieving Mother  (16:14)

And we'd have to carry him to put him in the bathtub. ⁓ he was not able to be mobile. He was in pain, a lot of pain. So we had him on a lot of medication to control the pain and we were fighting. And I remember, ⁓ my mom pulled me aside and she said to me that, you know, are you fighting for you? Are you fighting for him? And I thought that was the most cruel thing. And cruel, ⁓

Of I'm fighting for him, right? But was I like...

Claire Andrus (16:46)

Yeah, wow. Yeah,

what a hard question.

Grieving Mother  (16:52)

But it made me think about it and it made me start to understand that I need to let him go. And until I was able to let him go, he wasn't gonna go.

Claire Andrus (17:06)

And what did that look like for you letting him go? Yeah. So not just physically,

Grieving Mother  (17:11)

Right, right. At that moment, I remember a few nights before he passed away, I would say, I'm going to be okay. I'm going to be okay. And I would hold his hand and I'm going to be okay. You can go home now. And, the hardest thing I ever had to do, I don't know that I really believe that either. Do you know Amy?

Claire Andrus (17:34)

Yeah.

I do so deeply because the last few days of my mom's life, she was in a coma. Nurses and hospice care were encouraging, you know, talk to her. We think she can still hear you. And I had heard enough stories at that point in my life that some stories that people hold on and tell.

they hear those words that I'm going to be okay. And I was fighting it because I was like, I don't think I'm going to be okay. And it took everything in me to say the words. And I felt like I was lying through my teeth because I didn't want to say the words because I didn't want my last words to be a lie. And I

Grieving Mother  (18:26)

Yeah. ⁓

Claire Andrus (18:32)

And I felt selfish because I also you know, if this theory is correct, that that's what she needed to let go. And that's something that I could do for her. And so yeah, her last night, I laid in bed with her and I told her I was going to be okay, feeling like I was again, absolutely lying about it. And a few hours later, she died. And so

Yes, I know deeply what you're talking about. I don't know if I believed it.

Grieving Mother  (19:07)

Yeah, yeah. I also feel like there was a lot of pressure afterwards for me to live in honor of him. I wonder if you've ever heard that. And it's like, no, I need to stay in my grief and I need to stay in my pain in order to honor him. So really on the in those final days, I really thought I was honoring him by staying in my pain.

Claire Andrus (19:20)

Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (19:37)

And so saying those words, laying next to him, why he passed away, that was really hard for me as well. Yeah. You know, in the last few days of his life as well, there, ⁓ I think that finally giving into the fact that there's not going to be a miracle and that just because I'm a good person doesn't mean good things are going to happen to me. And he was my only child. So I had put in so much.

of myself to say my main goal in life is to be a mother and to realize now that I kind of didn't do my job. That's how I felt. Because I'm letting them down. didn't protect them. I didn't protect them. So those last few days, actually the last month, I sat by his bed, you know, morning, evening, all day long.

Claire Andrus (20:21)

Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (20:36)

I would sleep in the chair if I was going to sleep at all. And I had actually become almost a shell of myself. You know, I was really about him in his dying process. And that's kind of what I was. That was my whole life. It was my everything. So his living was my everything and his dying was my everything. And I was completely present with him.

And I remember he went through the breathing that they do. So as they're dying, especially from cancer, they'll do this breathing, ⁓ labored breathing. he had the death rattle, nine years old. Like, how could this be happening? And like your story, it was probably a couple hours later.

And I held his hand while he took his final breath. And at that moment, my life didn't feel real anymore. I felt like a piece of my heart and a piece of who I was went that day as well. That night was incredibly hard. then, you know, the next morning they came and got him.

And you know, there's kids in the street. So they came early because I didn't want the other kids to see what had happened. And I remember they came in to get them and they put the sheet over his head. I said, do not put the sheet over his head. a part of me felt like he was still there. Like I was still having those moments of this is not really happening.

Claire Andrus (22:20)

Of course. Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (22:22)

And it was slightly raining. And when they willed him out, I could see the rain kind of touching his face. And ⁓ I remember just feeling as they loaded them into the van that I just, couldn't let, I couldn't let him go. I can't even describe that feeling. Do you know, do you know what I mean?

Claire Andrus (22:45)

Yes. Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (22:47)

It's like, how do you describe that feeling when they're taking your loved one?

Claire Andrus (22:52)

I've not found the way because it was really important for me to be there at the end when my mom died. on the one hand, I am glad that I was there at the end because that was an intention that I went into it when we knew she was terminal.

And the trauma I still feel of having the coroners come in at 11 p.m. to take her out of the house, ⁓ yeah, that memory will be with me forever. ⁓ And it's something that not everyone will experience. I mean, everyone will experience death of loved ones, but being there at the end and

in your home, in the home that I spent my whole entire life with my mom and having having that be the ending. It's hard because there are times where I'm like, do I wish that I did not have that experience and have that burned into my brain? Yeah, there are definitely moments. It's hard.

Grieving Mother  (24:12)

Yeah. Yeah. And if I didn't mention, you know, he did pass away at home as well. So yeah, being in our home and ⁓ for us having to go on and live in that home being there and having that experience, you know, to be honest with you, I don't think I've talked about this experience in detail in many, many years. Like this is the first time I'm really talking about those.

those experiences that happened that night and I can almost feel the feelings. I'm teleported, right? I almost feel those feelings that I felt that night. I can feel it in my body.

Claire Andrus (24:55)

Yeah, I feel grateful you're willing to talk about them with me.

Grieving Mother  (25:00)

I feel grateful that you're doing this and that ABLE to have a platform to share.

Claire Andrus (25:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (25:07)

Yeah, of course. Yeah, um, yeah, they, they took them and, know, again, they took a part of me. And I would like to say that I handled the grief really well and I was lovely and I went and spoke about it and helped other mothers. I wish that could be my story. Or do I? I mean, I don't know.

Claire Andrus (25:35)

Bye.

I'm getting feeling that wasn't the story.

Grieving Mother  (25:42)

if not the story. It was messy, it was ugly, and it fucking sucked.

Claire Andrus (25:49)

Yeah.

Grieving Mother  (25:50)

Like my whole life ended in that moment. like I said, I was in recovery. had 12 years sobriety at the time. And unfortunately, I, I relapsed. I returned to use, ⁓ through the process. Yeah. Thanks for asking. So what happened? ⁓ this is not blaming, but this is the story.

Claire Andrus (26:12)

How long after?

Grieving Mother  (26:20)

I was a mess. I