GRIEF ON ANNIVERSARIES AND DIFFICULT DATES

Maya’s Episode: S1 E10- Death Days, Birthdays, And The Dogs & Tattoos That Saved Us

Keywords

grief, loss, addiction, healing, community, coping mechanisms, personal stories, mental health, rituals, tattoos, soul dog, animal loss 

Summary

Navigating grief means confronting difficult dates. This episode with NHFAR host and counselor, Maya, dives into the unspoken truths of grief anniversaries and birthdays after losses. We explore the immense pressure to "do it right," the phenomenon of "grief math," and how our bodies often react before our minds. We share about the misconception that things "get better" after the first year, and the new waves of grief that emerge when loved ones are no longer present.

Join us to explore the complexities of grief, its non-linear nature, and the vital role of community. We discuss coping mechanisms, from "soul dogs" to tattoos, and emphasize the need for open conversations and shared understanding. If the calendar feels like a challenge, this episode offers a space to connect and reflect.

Takeaways

Grief is a complex and non-linear process.

The impact of addiction can complicate feelings of grief.

Unanswered questions about loved ones can lead to secondary losses.

Rituals and coping mechanisms are essential in navigating grief.

Tattoos can serve as meaningful reminders of lost loved ones.

Community support is crucial for those experiencing grief.

There is no right or wrong way to grieve.

Cultural taboos around death can exacerbate feelings of isolation.

Grief can lead to personal growth and deeper connections with others.

It's important to talk openly about grief to reduce shame. 

Sound bites

"Grief is not linear."

"Grief math is real."

"I feel hardened by loss."

Full Transcript

thanks for coming on. Yeah, of course. Anytime. Do want to introduce yourself? Sure. My name is Maya.

Say them for me.

I'm an addiction counselor. dog parents.

What's your experience with grief, Ben?

experiences that it's a lot. There's been a lot of grief and loss in my life. Yeah, a lot. I don't know if you want me talk about all of it or just like... Wherever you want to start. Okay. Yeah, and we can jump around too. Yeah. We know grief is not linear. No, it sure isn't. I think we were talking about that just the other day, how much we both hate when people are like, the stages of grief. And we're like, that's not fucking how it works. Yeah,

Anyways, but yes, it's not linear. So it's all over. But yeah, I guess my first significant experience with grief was my dad dying when I was 21 of basically complications from alcoholism, which was like.

sudden but not surprising, I think. Because he had been in the ICU when I was in middle school. And they told him basically, if you keep drinking, you're going to die. And he did So that was kind of the beginning of the big grief.

your dad present in your life for the time that he died? Yeah, he was. My parents split up when I was 10. But I would see my dad on the weekends most of the time. There was a period of time when I did not go see him because my mom didn't feel like it was a good idea.

He was, he was pretty significant. I've had a long journey with my dad, like post his death too, just relationship shifting and my own personal experience with addiction and Just thinking there was a period where I felt really mad at him that that's, he gave me addiction and that was it. It was his fault and the genetic components. But then,

Yeah.

with him after his death has really been significant to me. you notice an evolution in your relationship even though he's not physically here anymore. For sure, Totally. That's a, I think, important piece about grief too. sometimes it might be a positive.

experience it sounds like you've been able to focus on you said the positive qualities that you've gotten from him and not just be mad and resentful

And also, right, can go the other way. We find things out sometimes about people after they've died and can also change our view of them, which is also hard. Both are hard. Yeah, it's so hard because you can't talk to them. it's not like you can get answers in the way that sometimes you want to, I want to know what really happened or what the truth is. ⁓

Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I feel that a lot too with both.

my mom and my sister of having these unanswered questions and wanting answers to them. And I know with clients that I've worked with, that's a big piece of this is I wanna know, and sometimes people set out on these journeys of trying to figure out the answers through other people and the disappointment that can come from that or maybe answers that they weren't wanting to find or also it's just someone else's version of the story.

and you still have questions afterwards too. there's, to me, right, there's that secondary loss part of this. Those are secondary losses of memories and the things that that person was the keeper of that you'll just never know. Yeah, exactly, yeah. So much. Yeah.

sure. Do you remember how were you told that your dad had died? Well I was at work and it was pre cell phones and I lived in Portland at the time I had graduated and moved up here with a partner at the time and my sister called my work and said you gotta come down dad's in the hospital and so I flew down that night and then I got off the plane and

Some friends of his that were friends of mine picked me up and I knew immediately that he's dead. Like as soon as I saw their faces he had already passed. So I didn't see him before he died and he was body after he died.

Yeah, which is, I think, significant because when he was in the hospital and he got out the hospital when I was younger, I was like, I'm not, it was very traumatizing to see him in the ICU, you know? And I told him, if you drink again, I will not come visit

in the hospital before I got there,

Yeah, that like I don't want to fucking see you in the hospital is that a Because it was so hard to see him in that state that that's not how you want to remember him was that kind of part of the avoidance of it I think it was that I see differently now as someone in recovery of like when when you see someone you love

in their addiction and how that impacts you and you doing things we're saying things to try to get them to stop, you know, and feel and understand how it's impacting you. I definitely as a kid, I felt like I wasn't enough for him to quit. And I have a completely different understanding of addiction now, you know?

And I was like 13 or 12 or something, like of course. Felt personal. Yeah, yeah, totally. that's such an important feeling, when somebody that we love dies from addiction.

it makes things really complicated that maybe people who have never experienced that don't fully understand. And I know for me, and I talk about it in another episode also, but I had a ton of guilt and shame that my sister died from addiction.

And I do this for work, This is what I spend the majority of my living, breathing days doing. And I must have done something wrong because this happened. so even, right, you're saying when you're young, you have these feelings, you understand it better. But even for me, like, I understand it logically and still when it happens to someone you love.

It feels personal and there's not a whole lot of logic in those moments around it. still feels like, was I not enough for my sister? Yeah. Through all of our conversations and my concerns. And I still feel that sometimes. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

zero logic around grief, you know? Which I think is something that I wish like the larger culture, the dominant culture in society understood is there's no logic, there's no stages, And just because there's no logic doesn't mean it doesn't make sense still. Like it makes sense that it doesn't make sense. I don't know, you know? I don't know how to...

It's a little existential, but totally. I guess that's what we're talking about. Dead people, know, have conversations, Yeah, it makes sense and it doesn't make sense. I mean, you're saying you wish larger cultural society understood, there's no logic to it. Like somebody who's never experienced any significant losses, like.

How else would you explain that to them that there's no logic?

with pretty significant people in my life. It's created a lot of disconnect and divide because they, I think they just want us to feel better, right? They just want, they just wanted me to feel better. didn't want me to be suffering so much and trying to explain that this is just how it is right now and I

and then go back and then there's no going back. It's just like a swirl. think it's nearly impossible to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it. And then once they experience it, they get it on a level that you don't want them to get, but you do want them to get. You know, like I want, I'm glad that they understand and I'm so, so sorry that they understand, you know?

Yeah, I think you're right that there is that even somebody who wants to understand so deeply maybe won't until they experience a significant loss. And that's, you know, something I talk about a lot on these episodes. Just one of the foundational reasons that this is so fucking lonely is.

Like who do you turn to, right? And if the people closest to you are people who have not experienced significant loss, as maybe the best that they're trying, exacerbates.

hard to explain it and I wish there was a way to that wasn't just you just have to wait wait until someone that you love dies. Yeah I mean I think if it was more

integrated to our way of life. There are cultures where grief and rituals and all that stuff surrounding death is more a part of just daily living from a young age and I think that that was the case then we would more understand it because we wouldn't have experienced that throughout. And it wouldn't make

It would still be hard, right? It would still be sad and hard and all the things. And I think it would make it more...

easy but like expected, you know? we deny death so hard in our...

it so jarring. I mean they're definitely great jarring things but both and right I mean even if we were in in a culture that talked about it differently or more openly and it wasn't taboo right those like death grief and taboo those words are associated with each other which is

wild to me. everyone is going to die and you absolutely will lose people in your life to death. that's true. And then to say that it's also taboo just rocks my world a lot of the time even just thinking about it.

And like you're saying, even if we had more conversations and openness about it, yeah, significant loss, unexpected loss, we'll still be jarring and fuck you up. And that's okay. totally. Yeah.

I don't think there's any part of me that wants grief to be easier because there is something so...

of grief, it's almost like you're more alive. I don't know, I feel very present when I

in a way that you lose when you're just going through daily life Yeah. I'm chuckling. You said, raw, raw grief. And it made me think of like, yeah, cheerleading grief on. Totally. Yeah, exactly. But raw, raw grief. Yeah. It's my new favorite thing to say now. Yeah. It actually is what you're saying too unintentionally. Yeah. It's like.

cheering grief on or cheering the fact that we have feelings and we're feeling so deeply is a double edged sword and it's part of it and there's no bypassing it maybe temporarily band-aids but no I've not met somebody yet that's figured that piece out

so dad died from complications of alcoholism, and then you said there was a period there where? Yeah, the people didn't die. The people didn't die. Yeah. It's so nice. It was lovely. I mean, I had my own grief around, I think, getting sober, It's a piece of grief and loss when you're losing this.

And 2018, my mom's husband died of cancer. was expected, it was also more quickly think was expected,

And that was hard for me mostly in seeing my mom. I knew Jerry, but he was in my life later, and they were together for about 10 years. So he wasn't like a dad, but seeing my mom go through that and watching her just what that looks like was hard. And then I remember saying to my wife this is hard.

But when my dog, Annabelle, who is my sole dog, who I got three months after I got sober, or maybe less, when Annabelle dies, I'm gonna be fucking broken. Because I figured she was the next being in my life that was gonna die, because she was already older and having some issues

Yeah, and just wanting to honor Annabelle's death and just even the conversations you were having with your wife and with Annabelle around her purpose.

I've probably shared this before, but my dog Katie, I also believe is my sole dog. And I adopted her just a month and a half after my mom died as my grief dog. And she had her own trauma and grief in her life. And I felt like we were meant to help each other through our grief. And she's still alive. She's 11.

It was this feeling of your purpose is to help me through my mom dying.

and assuming that nobody else would die, I'm really significant in my life for a while. And you know, just the way I thought the world was supposed to go. I was 27 when my mom died and I was young and not many of my other closest friends had lost people. And I was like, it'll be a while, right? And she'll be here. And then when my sister died, one of the first things that came out of my mouth

when I got the call that my sister had died, is I looked at my dog, I looked at Katie and I said, you cannot go anywhere anytime soon. Like you didn't know you had another purpose to serve, but like now we have another death and you need to help me through this. And I have anxiety on a regular basis of when she dies. I'm already pre-heart broken about it. I'm having anticipatory grief about it.

And so just want to take a moment to just honor that because I do, think grief over animals. And I think a lot of people minimize it and don't give it any energy. And you've experienced the loss of your soul dog. And I will at some point, unless I die before her. Right. Yeah. Who knows? You know, we don't know anything because nothing's guaranteed. But

Annabelle. Yeah, no, she's the love of my life. Yeah, think she saved my life in a lot of ways, right? Because she was this ball of unconditional love when I was struggling so much in early recovery. you you start feeling all the things in early recovery and, Once I just focused on her, then...

You know, and so she was, yeah, significant in my life. She went with me everywhere.

sister Tori grief was big with her. She was declining towards the end. And it was fucking hard because it had to make the decision, right? And so that was really heavy

It was really hard. It's hard to even talk about just because it was hard to make the decision. It was hard to watch it happen. The day did not go as I wanted it to. And that was in 2023. then at the same time, my wife's dog, who is a much smaller dog, Annabelle, was a

50 pound pity, And Lily was like 20 pound little long haired chihuahua that we thought would live for a long time. They were about the same age, probably 14, 15, and Lily got really sick. we had both of these dogs that we were caretaking the animal for a long time, we were carrying around, it was all this stuff. And then.

decide basically it was less than a week later that we decided it was time for Lily to be put out of her suffering. my heart. Yeah, our house, was heartbreaking.

and for queer community, especially queer community that doesn't have kids. our dogs I don't like talking about it like that, but they are our family, right? They are our family. And so half of our family was gone and it was so quiet and so hard. And so, yeah, today is actually the two-year anniversary of getting our dog, Billie Jean.

which was sooner than I think we thought we'd get a dog, but it was like so quiet and so empty that she came into our life when we needed her and it was just been a great dealing with grief dog, know, and bringing just constant joy and silliness, Yeah. Thanks for sharing about both Annabelle and Billie Jean. Yeah. Super important.

And then in 2019,

My brother was killed in an avalanche.

It's changing, you know? It's changed, I think, my molecular levels of things and just how I am in the world.

worth it.

He was on a ski hut trip with his family, his wife and their daughter was four at the time. And their teenage son had stayed home the weekend. They were on a trip with another family, a couple and a kid of similar age who they had recently made friends with. so they skied in,

and skied around all weekend. It was a long weekend. And then was the morning they were...

brother.

family went to do one more ski in the sunrise and I guess Will went down first stopped part way down

Will saw the avalanche happen, tried to yell at my brother. My brother of note, he had lost hearing or had tinnitus in one ear from a number

so it's possible like he didn't hear because of that. So anyways, they did have like beacons, Will found him, pulled him out, started CPR, and then went back to the hut to get help.

CPR for a long time. Yeah, he did not survive. ⁓

chills just thinking about that visualization. Yeah. even though I wasn't there, anytime I have to do the fucking CPR training, it's like triggering and traumatizing It's a little better now.

I think it's naming the vicarious trauma that's part of it, very different, but similar. when I found out how my sister died and how my brother-in-law died.

for months, even probably a year. I felt like I was there from hearing his experience with it I still feel like I was there because of what he had shared.

But it's wild, because again, I think some people have never experienced trauma or grief, don't realize that. That can be a thing. I wasn't there, you weren't there. But it fucked us up, what happened at the end Yeah, and I feel like, I remember right.

And I told the manager, And she was very understanding and just talked me through it. And I noticed, now I just, do the training anyways, but try to avoid being the person that's actually doing the thing. Because I'm afraid that people aren't going to understand, you know? And I, have to suss out whether I want to deal with that, The deal with the telling people and then people... Not understanding and having to be like...

change around talking about grief and sometimes it's So it is exhausting. Because even though we're carrying in our bodies forever and we know, then taking a step forward and saying words out loud to another person.

digs other things up and how are they going to respond? Am I going to have to manage their response or have feelings about their response? so yes, being an agent for change and also picking and choosing when I do that.

how did you hear that he died? I was actually, at the time I was working on call and was supposed to be working the night shift that night. And so I was home trying to take a nap at like four in the afternoon in the guest room and my wife.

Why are you trying to sleep? And she was like, your mom was on the

I remember just, I just kept saying I don't understand.

hand over and over and over again.

I'm also thinking about your wife having to be the one to tell you that. My mom must have tried to call me, but I don't remember there being a missed call. She might have called my wife first because my wife is good at a lot of things and maybe that felt easier. I don't know.

Yeah, that is heavy for her to have.

I remember when I got the call that my sister had died. It wasn't, I don't understand, but similar it was.

It was just what? Like what? What are you saying right now? I just kept saying what over and over again because I was like, I couldn't compute the words that were coming out of their mouth. Right. So confused. Yeah. so confusing because I mean, I knew he was going on this trip, but

I remember reading in the...

but it was about the conditions and all this stuff that I didn't understand but the percent grade of the slope, in relation to the snowpack and all these sciencey things I didn't understa